Question(s) About White Phosphorus Artillery

[JUAN DEAG]

The smoke shells in-game have WP written as a suffix. Does this stand for 'White Phosphorus'? If so, will this type of ammunition burn infantry alive or is the effect purely visual? Can I break international law and use it in the anti-personnel role?

[JUAN DEAG]

Can an admin please remove the second topic that I accidentally reposted?

[akd]

Yes, WP is white phosporous, and it does cause casualties, but HE is far more effective for that.

[JUAN DEAG]

10 minutes ago, akd said:

HE is far more effective for that.

I don't know. White phosphorus has to ways of causing casualties: the incendiary effect and the chemical effect. For the incendiary effect "Incandescent particles of WP may produce extensive burns. Phosphorus burns on the skin are deep and painful; a firm eschar is produced and is surrounded by vesiculation. The burns usually are multiple, deep, and variable in size. The solid in the eye produces severe injury. The particles continue to burn unless deprived of atmospheric oxygen. Contact with these particles can cause local burns. These weapons are particularly nasty because white phosphorus continues to burn until it disappears. If service members are hit by pieces of white phosphorus, it could burn right down to the bone" (Global Security). 

Furthermore, the chemical weapon aspects of it can cause "irritation of the eyes and the respiratory tract; abdominal pain, nausea, and jaundice; anemia, cachexia, pain, and loosening of teeth, excessive salivation, and pain and swelling of the jaw; skin and eye burns. Phossy jaw must be differentiated from other forms of osteomyelitis. With phossy jaw, a sequestrum forms in the bone and is released from weeks to months later; the sequestra are light in weight, yellow to brown, osteoporotic, and decalcified, whereas sequestra from acute staphylococcal osteomyelitis are sharp, white spicules of bone, dense and well calcified" (Global Security).

They can also encompass quite an area burn structures used by the enemy:

 

 

[Cobetco]

no the white octopus of death is not simulated in that way, its mostly just quickly deployed smoke in CM.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Cobetco

[Rinaldi]

First off: Well meme'd on the post tag, I lol'd

Secondly: Akd is talking about in game; the HE does much more damage, but WP can wound and kill, contrary to popular belief. Its just nowhere near as effective as it is in reality.

If you take the Allied "Heavy Mortars" (which require an FO), they are the 4.2 inch chemicals and have an overabundance of WP. I've caused enemy losses by laying a smoke screen on top of their positons. It won't do nearly as much as an HE barrage in game, but if you're busting for a smokescreen and want to cause the enemy some anguish at the same time, you can.

 

Edit: Wow wrong game compeltely, 4.2 inchers are from the WWII titles. I've never bothered with WP in Black Sea because air burst is always on-call and its infinitely more effective in-game. That being said, I see no reason why WP would suddenly not be dangerous in a different title.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Rinaldi

[akd]

10 hours ago, JUAN DEAG said:

I don't know. White phosphorus has to ways of causing casualties: the incendiary effect and the chemical effect. For the incendiary effect "Incandescent particles of WP may produce extensive burns. Phosphorus burns on the skin are deep and painful; a firm eschar is produced and is surrounded by vesiculation. The burns usually are multiple, deep, and variable in size. The solid in the eye produces severe injury. The particles continue to burn unless deprived of atmospheric oxygen. Contact with these particles can cause local burns. These weapons are particularly nasty because white phosphorus continues to burn until it disappears. If service members are hit by pieces of white phosphorus, it could burn right down to the bone" (Global Security). 

Furthermore, the chemical weapon aspects of it can cause "irritation of the eyes and the respiratory tract; abdominal pain, nausea, and jaundice; anemia, cachexia, pain, and loosening of teeth, excessive salivation, and pain and swelling of the jaw; skin and eye burns. Phossy jaw must be differentiated from other forms of osteomyelitis. With phossy jaw, a sequestrum forms in the bone and is released from weeks to months later; the sequestra are light in weight, yellow to brown, osteoporotic, and decalcified, whereas sequestra from acute staphylococcal osteomyelitis are sharp, white spicules of bone, dense and well calcified" (Global Security).

They can also encompass quite an area burn structures used by the enemy

Yes, but round for round, the probability of inflicting a casualty with WP is less than HE, for example, IIRC the casualty radius for 81mm HE is something like 30-40m while the casualty radius for 81mm WP is 10-20m (numbers may be wrong, but pretty sure HE is double or more compared to WP). Of course there is an added psychological effect from WP, but that is highly circumstantial and difficult to quantify.

 

[FoxZz]

Does all smoke shells contain white phosphorus ? There isn't phosphorus free smoke shells ?

[akd]

UI indicates type of round. "WP" is white phosphorus. "Smoke" is various forms of chemical smoke (e.g. base-ejecting chemical smoke).

[JUAN DEAG]

14 hours ago, akd said:

Yes, but round for round, the probability of inflicting a casualty with WP is less than HE, for example, IIRC the casualty radius for 81mm HE is something like 30-40m while the casualty radius for 81mm WP is 10-20m (numbers may be wrong, but pretty sure HE is double or more compared to WP). Of course there is an added psychological effect from WP, but that is highly circumstantial and difficult to quantify.

Mkay. So it is less effective than HE but it would make sense to add a moral mechanic to White Phosphorus.

15 hours ago, Rinaldi said:

If you take the Allied "Heavy Mortars" (which require an FO), they are the 4.2 inch chemicals and have an overabundance of WP. I've caused enemy losses by laying a smoke screen on top of their positons. It won't do nearly as much as an HE barrage in game, but if you're busting for a smokescreen and want to cause the enemy some anguish at the same time, you can.

 

Edit: Wow wrong game compeltely, 4.2 inchers are from the WWII titles. I've never bothered with WP in Black Sea because air burst is always on-call and its infinitely more effective in-game. That being said, I see no reason why WP would suddenly not be dangerous in a different title.

I'll have to implement the lethal smokescreen tactic in my gameplay because it sounds like you can blind the enemy and attrite them at the same time. Have you just tried this for just WWII titles and not CMBS? It sounds like you could blind suspected ATGM positions and kill them if you're lucky. Have you tried it against buildings?

[antaress73]

Any enemy using WP against my Troops will be shown no quarters if taken prisoner and will be executed.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

In regards to lethal fires, one of the more infamous combinations would be "shake and bake" which is when you drop WP prior to a HE mission.  The thick smoke from the WP is intended to drive the enemy from cover or concealment and into the open for the HE.

Which should indicate the actual lethal effects of WP leave something to be desired compared to HE or VT.  It's got a use, just it's infamy gives it an outsized reputation.